Hello!

I keep hearing about cheep Chinese pcb manufacturers, but no trace of them. I need only a 1-2 layer cheep pcb board, nothing extra fancy... But the cheapest i found was about 1 cm2 1$, and if you want something like 10x10 cm for a normal project, it will cost you about 100$, which i am not willing to pay... And still i keep hearing stories about entire pcb boards for 2-3$... So are this like some kind of legends, or do such companies really exists?

The cheap numbers are after you pay the set-up charge. If you only want one or two boards, then yes, they will be that expensive. But 100 boards may not cost much more for the entire lot than 5 boards will. On my 4Mx8 memory boards that Daryl posted pictures of here, the cost at Imagineering works out to be around $300 for the set-up, and fifty cents a board after that. I got 100 boards. They were made in Illinois, USA. I've used PCBExpress (not to be confused with ExpressPCB which is a similar service but requires you to use their software) to make smaller quantities, and I seem to remember the charge for the entire lot being well under $100 (this was several years ago) because they merge your project with others on the same panel. It is cheaper than Imagineering for small quantities of boards, but more limiting also, for example, they offer only a limited choice of drill sizes. These are made in Oregon, USA. ExpressPCB is in California.

I suspect that the newer 274X Gerber standard has made a big reduction the labor required to make the boards, so I'm not sure you can save a lot by making them in a country where the labor rates are super low. I used to always use 274D, with boards topping out at 12 layers and 500 parts, but then I had to make very detailed instructions in the readme file, especially for ground plane (and other plane) layers; and if the CAM department had people who don't speak English well, they would always confuse the aperture files and so on and make a big mess of things and then call me and say it's not manufacturable. I'm still using my 1994 CAD which puts out 274D files, but I've learned to convert them to 274X rather quickly, and then I can check it on the gerber viewer software and know that I've eliminated the board manufacturer's chances of introducing human error, and I've dramatically reduced their CAM time.

Here are some out of date(*) delivery-inclusive prices for two EU suppliers we checked out for our board, at 10cm by 6.66cm:

That is: PCB Train (UK) and PCB Pool (Germany)

I think there was a premium for faster turnaround.

(Sorry, not in a position to update the prices right now, but it illustrates the quantity effect even at small quantity.)

Cheers
Ed

(*) two years out of date

This site looks kinda cheep:
http://iteadstudio.com/store/index.php? ... cts_id=175

Certainly looks interesting - if anyone tries it, please post here with your experience. They are in Shenzen, will do 10 boards for $25 plus $25 shipping, paypal only. (2-layer boards, up to 10cm x 10cm, local taxes or duties might be charged.)

I used these guy's last time: http://www.sinfopcb.com

The price for 10 16cm X 11cm (about 6" X 4.5") boards was $115. That included set-up and shipping to my door.

They actually shipped me 15 boards. Bonus!

It was a painless and 100% satisfactory transaction. I will use them for my next project this winter.

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Bill

www.aztecmcu.com

What do you use for layout software? I see they accept standard Gerbers and drill files.

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x86? We ain't got no x86. We don't need no stinking x86!

DipTrace http://www.diptrace.com.

I have used Eagle, but I find it's routing workflow is a pain.

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Bill

www.aztecmcu.com

Am liking ultimatepcb.com for my Gerber work. I am using Kicad for work. Latest board design for a haunted house is around 4 by 8 inches, 2 layers. Came out around 9 per board after the setups, the entire total with shipping and setup round 250.

ExpressPCB is fantastic if you are running a 1 off prototype. Sadly, their software cannot export Gerber files for mass production, so you would need to relay out in other software for mass production.

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"My biggest dream in life? Building black plywood Habitrails"

I used PCBCORE (http://www.pcbcore.com) for my R6501 system. They will work directly from the Eagle PCB file which I thought was good as I could never get my head around all the options for gerber output.

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Andrew Jacobs
6502 & PIC Stuff - http://www.obelisk.demon.co.uk/
Cross-Platform 6502/65C02/65816 Macro Assembler - http://www.obelisk.demon.co.uk/dev65/

How can you beat this?!

I'm not sure if this would beat it, but I ordered 2 1" x 3" double side PC boards made from www.batchpcb.com. It took 3 weeks to get them back, but they sent me 4 boards for $30 with shipping.

They aren't fast, but they seem to be very cheap.

They keep the cost down by combining multiple orders into one panel, which takes a few days. Once the panel is filled, the send the data to china and the panel is made and shipped back. They split up the panel here and mail you your boards.

I notice Seeed Studio offer "Fusion PCB service", for quantities of 10 PCBs minimum. Presently free shipping worldwide for orders over $50.

(Turnaround wasn't so quick for this project, but the price was good: base price is $1/pcb for a very small one, pricing goes up in units of 5cm size, which is about 2 inches. Boards are 50% tested, or 100% tested for an extra $10. Think of it as a discount for partial testing.)

I have used one time PCBCart in China, and I get no issues with, and they are very fast.

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low volume pcb assembly

I normally use these http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppde/index.html - great service, acceptable price for single boards, you can choose if you want different features included like electrical test, protective paint, printing layer, ... They seem to be available in over Europe, but also US and South Africa (use the flags on the top right of the page).

André