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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 5:35 am 
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Recruiters Share Horror Stories From Job Market

Interesting essay on some issues faced by employers trying to recruit and retain good people.  I’ve heard laments similar to those described in the above article from some of my clients.  Although the essay mostly focuses on the business environment in the USA (Amazon gets “honorable” mention :D), I suspect it’s not too different in other locales.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 8:00 am 
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We might consider the rather strange concept of industries that want to hire skilled workers but which aren't ready to train them... instead, they expect workers who are already trained and experienced (and that's particularly interesting where you have major companies (not looking at you, HP and IBM!) who seem to have policies tailored around 'inviting older[1] workers to leave'...)

Too many MBAs in the food chain; too much concentration on three-monthly returns and nobody apparently looking further than the next budget.

Neil

[1] = experienced, but expensive.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 12:02 pm 
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Companies created the problem for themselves by viewing people as "resources" (i.e., something to be consumed and discarded) instead of what they truly are: assets. They compounded their stupidity by not handling employee problems on a singular, case-by-case basis instead of blanketing all employees with ever-more-asinine restrictions.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:54 pm 
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It's the difference between the Personnel Department and Human Resources. At least the former pretends to care about people.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:08 pm 
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barnacle wrote:
We might consider the rather strange concept of industries that want to hire skilled workers but which aren't ready to train them...

That seems to have been a long-standing concept in the electronics industry.  Apparently, a prospective employee is supposed to magically know exactly what an employer is wanting without having sat down with the person responsible for hiring.  Kind of tough to make sure one is trained to handle the position being advertised when no one knows for sure what that position is or what it requires.  Add to that the semi-anonymity of having to apply for a job on-line or by mailing in a paper resumé (aka CV), it’s no surprise that companies have to sift through a lot of chaff to find some wheat.

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Too many MBAs in the food chain; too much concentration on three-monthly returns and nobody apparently looking further than the next budget.

That’s basically it in a nutshell.  In the olden days before political correctness starting running amok, we Yanks would say “too many chiefs and not enough Indians.”  :D

DavidL wrote:
Companies created the problem for themselves by viewing people as "resources" (i.e., something to be consumed and discarded) instead of what they truly are: assets.

A lot of that seemed to start when the notion of the personnel department becoming the human resources department took hold back in the 1970s.  It also seems the HR concept took hold the fastest in nations with very strong labor unions, France being a particularly-notable example.

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They compounded their stupidity by not handling employee problems on a singular, case-by-case basis instead of blanketing all employees with ever-more-asinine restrictions.

In very large enterprises, handling problems on a one-on-one basis can quickly overwhelm the personnel...er...human resources department.  Ergo the blanket policies, asinine or otherwise.  I’m not sure there is a practical alternative.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 8:49 pm 
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The problem is complex—not particularly complicated, but complex; but within hours of when you posted this, I heard another program on the radio (yeah, I still listen to the radio sometimes, mostly when I'm preparing food) telling that fatherless homes are part of the problem, and President Johnson gets a lot of the credit for that, handing out financial rewards to unwed mothers.  My own parents were far from perfect but at least I had both of them, and disciplined work was a value taught in the home.

My dad however thought my electronics hobby was mostly a waste of time.  I have to say part of the problem with young people and work today however is that they have not been encouraged to have valuable interests that can later make them productive members of society.  Video games don't qualify.

My mom, who never worked in the real world, taught me that you're supposed to be super obedient to the employer, do exactly as you're told, be very dependable and predictable, etc.; but I had to learn the hard way that if the employer wanted a machine, he would have bought a machine, and that instead, you need to take initiative, not require the employer to babysit you, solve problems before you're told to, even point out (albeit respectfully) when the boss is mistaken.  My mother has her strong points, but is incredibly ignorant.

At my last place of work, 1985-1992, I hired a lot of technicians and a few engineers.  The best ones I hired weren't good because of education, but because of qualities they developed even before and outside of formal technical education.  They were responsible, had pleasant temperaments, and had a mindset of figuring out solutions to problems.  On the humorous side, one of them was somewhat of a cartoonist, and when he would make drawings for our production people showing how to assemble something, there was always this Garfield flair that came through, whether Garfield was on it someplace or not. :lol:

...and to give this some required 6502 content, that was where I first made serious use of the 6502.

Since I had to read about a thousand resumes in those seven years, I later wrote up a web page about how to write your resume, from the perspective of one who had to read them and hire people, exploding some of the myths I had been given even in school.  It's at http://wilsonminesco.com/HowWriteResume.html

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 9:13 pm 
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I know it's a shocking concept, but (particularly) the US vision of a company is that it exists purely and only to generate return for shareholders. Nothing else. If painting stripes on the sides of herrings produces a better return than what they're doing now, they should immediately retool with herring-painting-brushes.

I would argue that there is a serious social responsibility which is missing in the US model (and increasingly so in the UK; I can't comment on DE as while I live here I'm not part of the local workforce). A company not only has responsibilities to its shareholders, but also to its _stake_holders: its employees and their families, the local schools and shops and universities... it's not a fashionable view.

Neil


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 9:39 pm 
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GARTHWILSON wrote:
...within hours of when you posted this, I heard another program on the radio...telling that fatherless homes are part of the problem...

<rant>

American societal problems as a whole noticeably ramped up in the decade that followed the enacting of LBJ’s “Great Society” legislation.  As you noted, several generations of ne’er-do-wells have been spawned by unwed mothers, with no father anywhere to be seen, and said mothers and their ill-bred offspring being supported by taxpayers who had never had to rely on a government handout to raise a family.  Unsurprisingly, some of these illegitimate children have become, at best, low-skilled workers who are likely to be doomed to a career in which they earn subsistence wages, followed by an impoverished retirement supported by a modest Social Security benefit (assuming SS is still solvent when they reach retirement age) and no other income source.

Too many of the spawn that were born immediately after the start of the “Great Society” nonsense have themselves spawned more illegitimate children, who have repeated the cycle to the present day.  The primary difference between the spawn of fifty years ago and now is the present-day spawn all seem to be wearing Air Jordans, toting so-called smartphones, and getting a free pass when hauled in front of a judge for acting like thugs.  We will continue to produce copious quantities of such semi-useless individuals until such time is reached where the electorate is taxed into oblivion by supporting all the governmental give-aways that sustain the welfare class.

</rant>

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 9:49 pm 
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barnacle wrote:
I know it's a shocking concept, but (particularly) the US vision of a company is that it exists purely and only to generate return for shareholders.

Complicating matters, publicly-traded US companies are effectively bound by law to follow that model.  It’s the concept of “fiduciary responsibility,” which basically says the shareholders’ interests reign supreme.  If a publicly-traded company’s board-of-directors does something that compromises profitability and causes a loss of market value, they can be sued into financial oblivion.  Needless to say, that sort of thing tends to obscure other important aspects of running the business, such as the welfare of the workforce.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 12:15 am 
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BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
barnacle wrote:
I know it's a shocking concept, but (particularly) the US vision of a company is that it exists purely and only to generate return for shareholders.

Complicating matters, publicly-traded US companies are effectively bound by law to follow that model.  It’s the concept of “fiduciary responsibility,” which basically says the shareholders’ interests reign supreme.  If a publicly-traded company’s board-of-directors does something that compromises profitability and causes a loss of market value, they can be sued into financial oblivion.  Needless to say, that sort of thing tends to obscure other important aspects of running the business, such as the welfare of the workforce.

Hell, it doesn't even prioritize a healthy, stable business model, in practice. My employer got acquired a few years back by just exactly the kind of "sixty MBAs and a dozen actual workers" outfits that've already been discussed, and our local head honcho has had to spend the better part of the last six months talking them down from adopting rapacious price hikes that would - guaranteed - drive our entire customer base to competitors, which management does not consider a valid concern because they don't seem to believe that we have competitors o_O

We've absolutely ended up in a world where the majority of decisions at any business of meaningful size are made by people who have zero connection to even the actual line of business, let alone any questions of humane, ethical personnel management - and yes, the incredibly short shrift given to training and skillset development that yields the kind of workers we're talking about here is entirely of a piece with that. I worked at another job once where they hired on a rank newbie, had me show him the basics, and then abruptly laid me off; of course, they did that before I'd had the chance to show him any more than the basics. I wonder now and again what happened to that guy; I'm sure management was Very Piqued that the reports they weren't getting as fast as they wanted were somehow not magically any faster with a guy who only barely knew the process in charge of delivering them...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 1:08 am 
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I haven't worked for a publicly held corporation since 1985.  The last one I worked for, which is the one I mentioned made VHF and UHF power transistors mostly for military radars and communications, made me feel like a piece of equipment that they'd wheel around on a cart where needed.  Yep, human "resources."  I don't ever want to be in a big company again.

The owner of the little company where I worked from '85 to '92 had a hot temper, and it seemed like every time he'd get upset, he'd fire whoever was close.  The turnover rate was extremely high.  People lasted a very short time, either because they got fired, or they'd see this isn't working and they'd quit.  There was only one other person who lasted as long as I, and in those seven years, I saw over 500 employees go through.  I lasted because I was a little more insulated from him and he knew he couldn't do my job or easily replace me with another.  Not surprisingly, the company folded some years after I left.

I worked for an even smaller company from '92 to 2008, then it was acquired by the place I'm working for now, and this owner, although not perfect, is the most reasonable man I've ever worked for.  Sure, he cares about the bottom line; but he understands that it works out best if he fosters conditions that make for a very low turnover rate.  He did have to fire a technician last year who kept showing up high, or drunk, or hung over, and also had to fire the other engineer almost ten years ago for excessive angry outbursts.  That engineer was smart, but volatile.

Most of this was before young employees or job seekers had to be checking their phones every 30 seconds, or expect a living wage for unskilled labor.

Related however is that what engineering schools, or maybe universities in general (although there are plenty of specific exceptions), are turning out.  I've mentioned before that there was an editorial about this in one of the industry magazines years ago.  It said the industry is telling academia, "You're not giving us the kind of engineers we need.  We need ones who can do this, this, and this..." and academia responds, "Look, you know your field, and we know education.  Leave the education to us, 'kay?", so the problem persists.  It was a constant frustration for me in the years when I was hiring technicians and engineers.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:06 am 
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I worked for a tax-funded but otherwise independent company for over thirty years. It had been established fifty or sixty years before I joined, and it had defined not only the best industry practices but also developed most - if not all - of the techniques and technologies that enabled that industry. Not having shareholders, it is beholden to its charter and it has done its best, I think, to maintain that position in spite of opposition from more recent competitors and indeed government.

There have been a number of advantages for it: in particular, it has maintained its own training establishment and curriculum since it was founded. Initially it was founded by enthusiastic amateurs, but was informed by employees from similar industries; the key aspect of the training was that both the teaching and the curriculum were very closely aligned with the needs of the company - and that most of the teachers had already done the tasks they were teaching about for many years. So they could take school leavers with university-entry-level qualifications and give them a university level education but focused specifically to their needs.

Neil


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:33 am 
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barnacle wrote:
I worked for a tax-funded but otherwise independent company...

Basically a contradiction in terms, as a tax-funded entity is inherently dependent on the taxing authority that is providing the funds.

The only truly-independent businesses are those that are privately-owned.  Not being beholden to shareholders, the business owner/manager can focus on the overall well-being of his company and people...in theory.  However, privately-owned operations are not immune to the ebb-and-flow of revenue and the need to stay profitable.  That means if profitability goes south, the first order of business is to do whatever is necessary to reverse that.  Either revenue has to increase or expenses have to decrease (or both), and in most businesses, the latter is easier to accomplish than the former.  The biggest expense is the workforce...and altruism goes out the window.  :?

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